2007年11月15日 星期四

中國人權

Hi Gabriel,您的回應涉及到一些很有趣的論點。首先,您提到"我亦相信,今天中國普羅市民的人權和生活比起8年前申辦奧運時要好。" 不知道您有沒有任何證據支持您這個 prior belief (當然,這可能是common belief)?
和您的想法相反的證據之一是,Amnesty International, in a statement released September 21, 2006 said: "In its latest assessment of the Chinese government's performance in four benchmark areas of human rights ahead of the Olympics, Amnesty International found that its overall record remained poor. There has been some progress in reforming the death penalty system, but in other crucial areas the government's human rights record has deteriorated."不知道您的看法如何?

Elliott
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Elliot,
Are you talking about 12 billion poor villagers versusthe remaining "rich" and/or middle class population?Or what figure you have?

Gary
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Hi Gary,

Human rights and living standard are two relevant, but fundamentally different things. While it's obvious that the average living standard has improved in the past years, this does not necessarily imply any advance in human rights. However, many people share a common belief on this implication, and in my last email I was trying to challenge this belief, which seems to me is groundless.

I don't have the AI report in my hand, but if you or anybody else are interested, I'll try to search for it. At the same time, I'll appreciate if anyone can provide further evidence.

Cheers,

Elliott
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親共人士最喜歡用"中國人民生活比前進步了"來作為中共獨裁統治的遮羞布,相對而言,這句話錯不了。
問題是當涉及民主,人權等這些沒有國界之分的普世價值觀的時候,便不可以用同樣邏輯來評論,因為世界上是沒有〞半民主〞的國家或"60% 人權的國家",所有這些民主,人權,自由,法治等的文明概念只應該分為"有"或"沒有",否則當年前蘇聯也可以說成是"有一些民主的大國"(部分特權階級確實享有自由),因此批評某獨裁國家的民主,人權等有進步了是偷換概念的把戲

Joe
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We don’t live in a world with only black or white. According to the UN Declaration (see below article from Encarta Encyclopedia), there’re many measures. I don’t think one could simply say that a country either has or has no human rights. If we take a look at these measures, comparing 10 or 20 years ago, I’ve to say that China have made improvements.

Gabriel
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Thx Elliott,

My belief is that in China:1. those living in the cities, just like you and me:have rich and poor and middle class people. They dohave "some" rights.2. Those who are ultra rich: they can have nearlyeverything they want.3. The poorest are the villagers, billions of them:children has very low quality education, no healthcare, no doctors available, their land/property aregrabbed by corrupted local officials, they make somehundred bucks (RMB) a month, maybe even worse.

Gary
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If human right can be measured, a country with 0.01% human right can still be regarded as having human right. Even the worst human right country, the dictator himself has plenty human right. Can we say that we cannot criticize this country because it still has a very minimal human right?

The Red China now positions itself as a major player on international platform. Its economy is running at a fast pace and playing a major role in international trade and financial matters. Though its human right is not zero, it lags behind its economic development by decades or even a century. Even its human right is marginally better than it was 10 or 20 years ago but is a far cry from its economic development and its international significance which should be a basis that we demand Red China's human right to be improved much more than it is right now.

Edwin
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不可濫用”進步”這個詞彙

在某些人的眼中,世界上沒有不民主的國家,只是「民主」多一些與少一些的分別,他們也都在進步中,因此不應譴責他們,亦因此李柱銘錯了。
民運人士的眼中,不民主的事件,一次也不能有,掛著民主招牌的美國,偶然違反人權也應受譴責。
用”進步”去形容一個草菅人命的政權無論如何難以接受,一個每天殺死十個人的在逃殺人犯減為每天只殺死五個人,我們會稱讚他有 “進步”嗎?

Joe
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